Topics for Young Adults part 1 (Piercings and Tattoos) | Ep. 80

Today starts of a multi-part series on different topics for young adults. We have some special guests that will be joining us for this special 2-month, 8-part series and we are hoping that you the listener will be able to use our conversations to help open the door to these conversations in your own home.

The scriptures tell us in Proverbs that, "Wisdom is the principal thing; Therefore get wisdom. And in all your getting, get understanding. " (Pro 4:7)

We pray that you will also find wisdom in our exchanges on how to apply the principles of God to our present-day affairs. It is important to have these conversations with our own at home before they go out into the world because they will be exposed and need to know how and why to stand in the righteousness and truth.

Please visit Our Father's Heart for more information and if you would like to support our efforts you can do so through Paypal, Cash App ($jbenjesus), or Venmo (@jbenjesus). 

Transcript

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j - Jesus M. Ruiz 0:03

The vision receives a set of blood cells traveling throughout the body, supplying the much-needed oxygen and other nutrients to the differing members of the body to fulfill their purpose. Once the blood cells are sped, they must return back to the heart to be refilled before being sent out again and fulfill their purpose. Hello everyone. Thank you for joining us on another episode of Our Father's Heart. We have a special uh engagement uh this time for you. Um we have some special guests uh that I'd like to introduce now. We have uh our youth team leaders from the church that we are fellowshipping at at the meeting place. Uh we have uh Malachi Jordan and Amber Jordan. They are married just recently, within a little over a year, right? A little over a year. Uh they've been going to the church almost about the same time as us, maybe a month ahead of us, I think. And uh we have my first baby. Lydia is in the house, and uh my wife is going to join us uh for this particular podcast. So, while you don't see them, but they're all like celebrating joyously with their hands and dancing and waving their hands in the air. Um, so we hope that you will find uh this time fruitful. Um we have a lot of topics to discuss, and I've given them free reign uh within the confines of our humble abode, of our basement, to uh speak on all of these topics. Um I hope that it will help uh many of our young uh brothers and sisters uh that are graduating from high school, that are entering into college, or maybe they're just entering into life and the workforce. And uh there's a lot of things that are coming against them, uh especially those that have been raised in the faith. Um, and it's it's it's very difficult. There's a lot of uh topics we're gonna discuss today that are um they're authentic, they're genuine, they're real, um, and we want to address them in a manner that is uh, how should I say, honorable to the Lord and honorable to his word. So um before we get started, I'm gonna let our special guests kind of introduce themselves and maybe share something about themselves that they'd like you all to know before we get started. So I'm gonna start with the head of the house, Malachi, talk to us.

SPEAKER_00 2:40

Well, my name is Malachi. Uh, it's great to be here on your podcast here. Um we're just grateful to be in this position to be able to share our experience and how the Lord has dealt with us over the years being in college, being young adults, being single young adults, um, as well as now being married young adults. And so uh we're just excited to share our perspective.

SPEAKER_05 3:06

Amen.

SPEAKER_02 3:07

My name is Ambert. I'm his wife. Um we're both actually 25 years old. Fun fact, we're one day apart, and so we're just thankful to be here, very honored. We are avid listeners of our Father's Heart podcast. Very quick to always shout them out. Um, so just super honored to be here. Um, born and raised in church. I don't think that has a lot to do with anything if you don't really know Jesus and have a relationship with him. Um, so yeah, just excited to share our story. I can talk a whole lot more about being single than I can about marriage.

j - Jesus M. Ruiz 3:40

So well, we'll balance it out. I think that's why we're here. So uh we may have forgotten some things from from your uh you know age and experience uh that you might bring up like, oh yeah, yeah, yeah. And then we can kind of bring uh uh maybe a more uh seasoned perspective. But we also have Lydia here with us. Uh why are you here?

SPEAKER_04 4:03

Why? Um a couple weeks ago, it was brought to my attention that uh my dad was going to do a specific podcast at the request of somebody on some topics they would like to hear being discussed on the podcast, and he was talking about it with me, and as he was, he's like, you know, you're not married, but you can provide a good single adult perspective. As like, well, I thought he already had it squared who was gonna be on it. Um, but I thought about it and agreed to be on, so that's why I'm here.

j - Jesus M. Ruiz 4:37

All right. Well, we're glad to have you. And my lovely wife is there, grinning. Do you have anything to share?

SPEAKER_03 4:44

Um, I'm also honored. I enjoy doing the podcast, even though I was a reluctant participant the first time you made me do it. Or you asked me to do it. Let me rephrase that. Ouch! I'm sorry. Did you hear that? And then it and then I I made her and then I actually it was enjoyable.

SPEAKER_05 5:02

Um deal with that today.

SPEAKER_03 5:05

Yeah. It was enjoyable to share, uh, it's always enjoyable to share the testimony of God's goodness. And I realize that there's a lot of things that the Lord does for us that we can be an encouragement to someone who's going through something. If we've been in that place and God moved us forward, then we should be a source of hope and wisdom um in our life, an expression of life.

j - Jesus M. Ruiz 5:32

Amen. So you've uh gotten to hear from everybody that's going to be speaking uh during our podcast. So uh kind of the topic of our podcast is um topics that are really geared toward youth and uh things that they're questioning, things that they're going through. So I'm just gonna just name them out, and just so you guys have an idea as you're listening uh what kind of things we're gonna talk about, I would hope that you would share them uh with your younger children or younger siblings or whoever that it applies to, uh, because we're gonna be talking about piercings and tattoos and music and relationships and dating and courting and well, uh we'll get to these other topics later. They're a little bit more uh um I don't know, risque, if you will. Uh, but we'll also talk about divorce and the importance of being in church and drinking and smoking and insecurities and something called manifesting, which I'm not particularly uh well-versed in, but after I heard I was like, oh, okay, you can handle that. So I'm gonna let uh my wife kind of talk about that when that comes up because I think she kind of read up on it and found out where it came from. And then obviously the big one, peer pressure. Um, and then I would like to end with moving on from the past and forgiveness, because after we talk about all of these things, I think uh it's really important for um our young people to know that if they've fallen in any way, shape, or form, that there's still hope and there's still forgiveness that can be obtained uh no matter what we've done, no matter what we've thought to do, um, no matter how many times we've fallen, um, we can get back up. And I think of 1 John 1 9 that I you know taught to my uh children and my wife taught to our children, uh, but we'll we can get to that later. So I'm gonna open up the floor. Does anybody have any particular topic you would like to kind of address first after that long list uh that I gave? Uh you want to start from the top that I did, or we could start from anywhere else? Oh awkward silence and quiet.

SPEAKER_00 7:55

I think we just start in order.

j - Jesus M. Ruiz 7:57

Start in order? Yeah. Alright, so we're gonna go with uh piercings and tattoos. Uh I'm gonna ask our special guest did that did that did that did the uh influence of piercing tattoos happen for you during high school or mainly during college?

SPEAKER_00 8:22

You know, I guess in this this regard, your environment has to deal a a lot with that, and that you you're raised in a Christian environment. Those types of issues, anything like that, doesn't really occur at a specific age. It's just usually when you're independent, away from your household, that environment.

SPEAKER_05 8:44

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 8:45

So I guess you would say like during college you see it more because everybody is their own person. Um they're away from their family, and you're ex you're uh experiencing what it's like to be independent and then see other people engaging in independence. Um as it relates to those issues. Piercings, what is piercings? Is it including just ears piercing? Is that nose, lips, is that anything? Because there's a list of different piercings. There is you can go on a huge tangent about um the different kinds of piercings and why anybody want to get them, but uh to boil it, to boil it down. Um I think our view of piercings has been influenced how we were raised. Like I was raised. Piercings was like a you don't do that. No ears, no, no uh like tongue piercings, no nose piercings, any kind of piercings. That's how I was raised.

j - Jesus M. Ruiz 9:48

In your home.

SPEAKER_00 9:49

Yes, in my home. Did they tell you why? Um so the scriptures that were used back then, which I know might have good intentions, but understanding it's out of context. Oh a lot of scriptures used come from like Levitical law, which had its context, um as well as uh an understanding of modesty and uh talking about like jewelry and things like that. Um again, it's all about interpretation. So like if you're raised in that interpretation, until you actually take the time to see it in scripture, you don't really break away from that mindset.

SPEAKER_05 10:30

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 10:30

So personally, that's something I struggled with and putting that on other people, and that this is what I was raised with. This is my mindset. Right. And as I study the word, I realize you know what, it's more of a temperate view, and then it's not a man, you got an ears piercing, sorry, I'll see you in hell type thing. That's that's not the reality of it. Um whereas my wife has a different upbringing. Um, I'll let you tell her. Really? Well, Amber, come right in. That's a good intro for you.

SPEAKER_02 11:03

Grow up in the Jordan household. And so I practically was born with earrings. A few months in, got my ears pierced. You know why? Oh, the baby's nerves aren't really in yet, she won't really feel it, cried, whatever. So I've always had earrings my entire life. The holes are still there. Um, so I disagree. It was not in college or high school. I was born with it, practically. Never saw anything wrong with it. Um, fast forward, come to college. Oh, people are getting tattoos. Oh, people are getting more piercings. And so I never wanted to do anything because at this point in my life, I said, okay, father, I only want to do things if you're okay with it, and that's how I want to live my life. And so I did like nose piercings, just a little bit. I saw this girl on TV, I was like, oh, that's kind of cute. I like that. And so I figured, alright, well, let's see what the Bible says. And then I would see verses where I'm like, oh well, so-and-so gave his wife the nose in her ring, or um, that's the verse. Oh Lord help me. In Ezekiel, yeah, in Ezekiel 16. Yes. I put a ring on the first one.

j - Jesus M. Ruiz 12:10

Because I want our listeners to be able to look at that for themselves.

SPEAKER_02 12:14

So Ezekiel 16, 12. This is ESV. And I put a ring on your nose and earrings in your ears, and a beautiful crown on your head.

SPEAKER_00 12:21

And this is This was the Lord talking to Israel, I believe.

SPEAKER_02 12:25

So I was like, oh, okay, well, this is not bad. And so I went ahead and I got my nose pierced. I didn't feel no type of conviction about it or anything. I thought it was super cute. I didn't think I was doing it for vanity or anything like that. And so when I met Malachi, I knew good and well that this man did not want me to have a nose ring.

j - Jesus M. Ruiz 12:46

Did it hurt?

SPEAKER_02 12:47

Did it hurt? Yeah. I mean, I can't.

j - Jesus M. Ruiz 12:51

Does it make you like sneeze? Because I know when you stick swabs. Oh, you do. Oh, interesting.

SPEAKER_02 12:58

Um, but yeah, I knew he didn't want that. And I said, Lord, I'm not taking this out just because some man wants me to, until he's my husband and can say so, I'm not gonna do that to please him. And so Malachi and I, throughout our relationship, and we'll probably talk about this later, but we had periods of fasting where we wouldn't talk to each other. And so during one of those times, I felt like the Lord was saying, just take it out. And I was like, okay, that's fine. I'm just taking it out, seeing if you know I'm fine with it. And I was, and then there came a time where I went to put it back on and I hated it. I was like, what? What? I love this thing. What happened? And so yeah, I never again. The Lord honored the manservant because I didn't think biblically there was anything wrong with it, and I still don't, unless it's for vain reasons.

j - Jesus M. Ruiz 13:52

But you said you hated it.

SPEAKER_02 13:53

Why did you all of a sudden I hated it? I the Lord honored him. That's that's literally my reasoning. What is your reasoning? Why'd I hate it? I love that thing. I was cute.

unknown 14:04

Okay.

j - Jesus M. Ruiz 14:06

Were you cute without it?

SPEAKER_02 14:07

Yes. Oh, okay. I knew that.

j - Jesus M. Ruiz 14:10

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_02 14:10

Well, I mean, look at me now.

j - Jesus M. Ruiz 14:15

All right, so we got one that was uh it's a the whys are so important. I really, really feel like the whys are I believe in every generation, but especially this generation. They don't want to just be told what to do, they want to know why. They want it to make sense. And it's depending on whether you're in the kingdom or outside the kingdom, if you're in the kingdom, I want chapter verse. Right. You know, I want to know where that is, where is that found. And I found I'm near a half a century now, um, that there are many things that the Lord um is pleased with, that the Lord rejoices in, that the Lord is happy with, that are not found in black and white in the scriptures. Because I I not only want to see black and white in the scriptures, but I also want to discern, and and I say it this way because of our Father's Heart podcast, I want to discern the heartbeat of God. For me, the principles that underlie the word are the heartbeat of God. I think of when uh John the disciple he laid on on Jesus' breast. And I always, always imagine he was hearing God's heart right there. He was hearing, he was hearing the thumping of our of our God's heart right there as he laid on his breast. And that's when I read the scriptures, I don't want to just read the you know, do not do this, do this, the these and the thou's and the all that other stuff, thou shalt not, thou shalt. I want to know what the heartbeat of God is. And so uh, you know, when you read that scripture about um what was it, Ezekiel? 165. Yeah, uh, that was I I remember that scripture, and I remember, yeah, that was about because I was studying jewelry and all of that stuff. I was like, really? He put a nose ring on him, and then I was wondering, okay, but is there more to that? Is there a metaphor for that? Is is there something deeper beyond you know the physical nature of getting a nose ring or getting you know beautified? So when I read those scriptures, uh I, or any scriptures really, any scriptures, I think it's important that we recognize as as uh children of God that the carnal mind doesn't understand the things of the Spirit of God because they're discerned, you know, naturally and they don't they don't coincide with the spirit. We have to discern things spiritually. So sometimes things like I it seems like for you, no, there's nothing wrong with that. But then when you start discerning spiritually, God actually does something within you, and then you now have something that wasn't there before, and it's a spiritual thing. It wasn't like somebody taught you and said, Let me sit you down and teach you about this. It's God moving in us, and that's the work of the spirit in our life. Um, Lydia, did you have uh any issues growing up about piercings and tattoos and stuff?

SPEAKER_04 17:17

So the way I grew up was we did not have our ears pierced from birth. Um, I remember being scared to ask my dad when I was about 15 if I could get my ears pierced. I spoke about it with my mom first, and she didn't see a problem with it. Um, I remember dad asking me why when I asked him, could I? Um and I don't remember my answer, honestly, at the time. I think it was something along the lines of I liked how it looked and I wanted to try it. But we had, I do remember I wasn't supposed to wear really dangly long stuff. It was just the I don't know what you call it. Studs. Studs. Yeah, just do studs, and then when I was older, I could decide if I wanted to try something a little bit more, I don't know what the word is, uh dangling, extravagant, I guess. I don't know. Um, but I do know when we were in Florida, we grew up in a very modest church who had a very similar interpretation to your family, Malachi. Um, I couldn't remember the verse, which is what I was looking for right now. Okay, but one of them was uh 1 Timothy 2 9. In that manner, all this is KJV version. In that manner, also, women adorn themselves in modest apparel with shamefacedness and sobriety, not with embroidered hair or gold or pearls or costly array.

SPEAKER_06 18:44

Oh, yeah, braids.

SPEAKER_04 18:47

I am wearing braids right now, actually. Um, and I don't remember the other verses where they were, but I do remember in that church, I remember this happening and got a little bit of trouble for it. In Sunday school, they were giving us a lesson on if how you wore jewelry. Um, you were Jezebel. And I spoke up and said, Well, my mom wears earrings and she's not Jezebel. That caused me to get in a little bit of a fight with a girl, and they had to go.

j - Jesus M. Ruiz 19:14

You talked about that often. Yes, I think. You did that same thing with Christmas.

SPEAKER_04 19:18

I did. Yeah. Um, I we were pretty, I would say John and I were pretty bold growing up, um, saying what we were taught at home, and it sometimes went against the grain of the church we were going to at the time. So that was one of those times. I don't know what they said to you guys. I do remember this happening, and I still remember the name of the girl I had a problem with over it still. Okay. I don't know why. I don't even remember her face, but I remember her name. So um I remember getting that. Um, in our house, it wasn't necessarily frowned upon to have earrings. Like I said, once we were of age, my dad was fine with it. I don't think John ever questioned it. He wasn't ever gonna get it. That I know of. Um, but with tattoos, that is a different story. We never I never asked if I could get a tattoo. I just kind of knew instinctively I probably shouldn't get one. I don't know why. There was no biblical anything behind that for me that I could remember.

j - Jesus M. Ruiz 20:15

Is this something that you got from your parents? Huh? What'd you say? Is this something that you got from parents? What do you mean? Well, did they ever say anything about tattoos?

SPEAKER_04 20:24

I don't know. I don't remember a distinct moment. Neither do I. For example. Neither do I. Another example I could give is I don't remember instinctively, like specifically being told you weren't allowed to date until you're 18, but I kind of just knew I wasn't ever going to question that or ask for that until I was 18. It was just one of those things I just kind of didn't push the envelope on. So the same thing with tattoos. I did not um ever really entertain the thought. I've always not always, but there's certain things I was like, it would be nice to have a like a little ocean wave or a dolphin, because I love dolphins. But if that was the fleeting moments, I'd never actually considered it seriously getting one of those. So no specific reason, I just didn't.

j - Jesus M. Ruiz 21:07

So okay. But you just just to be clarified, you have your ears pierced.

SPEAKER_04 21:14

I do, yes, just one. Okay. Um yeah. I don't have the some people have the two. I noticed that a lot of things. One ear. No, no, no.

j - Jesus M. Ruiz 21:25

So you need one in each ear.

SPEAKER_04 21:26

One pair.

j - Jesus M. Ruiz 21:27

In each ear load.

SPEAKER_04 21:28

Yes. Yes. I noticed in college some people like to have a stud on one of the piercings and then like a little hoop or something.

SPEAKER_07 21:34

I just do that.

SPEAKER_04 21:36

I just didn't see the point. And also, as a soccer player, it just wasn't there's just no point. You have to take it out all the time. So I rarely wore it anyways, Ever. Even after getting the piercing, it was like for special occasions or church. Okay. Or something like that.

j - Jesus M. Ruiz 21:51

Did you have anything? As we go around the table?

SPEAKER_03 21:54

Uh just my upbringing. Well, I didn't become a Christian until I was in my twenties, but Um my family was a Catholic. There was never an issue. It was like Amber. I my ears got pierced when I was a baby. It's what Spanish people, a lot of Spanish people do. So um I never saw anything wrong with it. But then, you know, I guess when I started seeing people with a lot of earrings, or you know, just a variety of expressions with the earrings and um tattoos, it just you know, I started looking at the scriptures on it. And I and I it I think it's I think it's interesting like what happened with Amber because it tells me that the Spirit of God will lead us in what He if we have a heart for him, He's going to lead us in the direction we should go. Usually when we insist on something or we want to, you know, argue a point, we're not quieting ourselves to hear the Spirit of God. Because if God does not give you a conviction, you know that I feel this way, honey. If God doesn't give you a conviction, then you don't need to be doing something about something just because everybody else in a church or in a place is telling you. However, you should be prayerful and you should seek the Lord. And if He um my thought is if you love God, He will lead you. And if there's no point and there's nothing He tells you, then you should continue uh seeking, you know, conducting your life and not walking in condemnation or because um as I was telling a sister in church, everybody has a different way of expressing their faith. Um we may have been raised uh screaming when we get excited, or running around the church, or people dance, some thinking about praise, and so it's moaning like we're having a baby. Uh huh.

j - Jesus M. Ruiz 23:45

Or moaning like we're having a baby.

SPEAKER_03 23:47

So I mean, so I could be weirded out because I'm not used to seeing that, but over the time that I've been with the Lord, I've learned to just talk to the Lord and express my worship the way the Lord gives me and not try very hard not to judge something that's different. But that's hard to do because you know we we're just we have a mindset that it's like, whoa, that's kind of strange. I've never seen that.

SPEAKER_02 24:13

So I think the same thing goes with piercings and and and I realized that I said a lot about oh, I was cute, I don't want to seem vain. But let me give a little bit of backstory. I actually talked to my dad before I went ahead and get it and got it. Because and my dad is a pastor, and so I had the conversation, I brought up the verse in Ezekiel, I said, This is what I wanted, I feel like it's okay, um, that this is the stage that I'm in in my life, and that the Lord is redeeming me, and it's a sign of this. And do I have your blessing? Because I know these things are associated with rebellion, and kids go out of their way. And I was over 18. I think I got it on my 22nd birthday, and he gave me his blessing. So I was like, okay, I'm straight. So I just wanted to add that tidbit, and also as it pertains to judging other people, that was something that the Lord had to convict my heart on, and recognizing that not everybody in their life has the same convictions, and not saying that my world my way is the best way or the golden way. Um, but the Lord deals with us differently in an in his perfect timing. So it's not for us to like, ew, why does that girl have that in her face or anything like that?

j - Jesus M. Ruiz 25:31

Did you have anything to add?

SPEAKER_02 25:32

Oh, and the Jordan daughters will not be having their ears pierced at birth. I know that. It made me sad at first.

j - Jesus M. Ruiz 25:41

Interesting.

SPEAKER_03 25:44

We had that conversation too.

j - Jesus M. Ruiz 25:45

We did? What was our conversation?

SPEAKER_03 25:47

Um, you said no, and I was well like, and especially when the girls were older and they wanted to, I was like, I don't see what the problem is. And so we kind of had that conversation.

j - Jesus M. Ruiz 25:58

Okay. Okay, so it came back to me. Um I had an earring. Um I can't remember where I got it. I mean, no, I remember where I got it. I can't remember when I got it. Um I I I think it was after high school. I think I was in college. Um I can't remember if my mom was alive yet. I don't know if she had she had died at that time. So we're thinking I'm I'm thinking anywhere between 18 and 20. Um I got a stud in my ear. I went to the mall. Um and I remember at the time feeling like I just I just wanted one. I think I wanted a stud, and then just have a little little there. Um and I wasn't born again at the time. I was seeking after the Lord. I thought I was a Christian at the time. Um but but I wasn't born again according to the you know, as the scriptures had said, and uh eventually I I I got rid of it. I I don't think my dad was very pleased with it. Uh he didn't say anything directly. I think I could just tell by his face. Um but you also have to understand my dad is not in the kingdom at all. He he I didn't grow up in the church per se. Uh yeah, per se. No, I didn't grow up as a church. I wasn't a preacher's kid or anything like that. Um so I just thought it was cool at the time to just have a little little hoop. And uh I think I think it was peer pressure. I think I can honestly say it just was. I I thought it was cool. Other my friends were, you know, had one or were getting one. Um otherwise I really don't uh see why I would have done that. Um I I I if anything, it's not like I always succumbed to peer pressure, but curiosity was always what got me. I was always curious uh about things well with that thing. Never with tattoos though. Um that's just something that it it never appealed to me. Um and so to it came back to me uh as we go through this round table. Um I want again, I I want to be able to help those that are listening. Um I don't want this to be a Mount Sinai event where this were the God of heaven speaking to everybody. This is what you shall shall not do. I really don't want that. But I I want to, in the most humblest way, in the most uh humblest way possible, ask everyone to consider some things that that I I've looked up. Um there was a uh a man named James Cook. He was a traveler over the seas, and uh he went to Tahiti uh at some time and he saw that the natives of Tahiti had tattoos. I don't think it was something he'd ever seen before. It was very novel, it was very unique. And you have to consider that the natives were considered primitives, they were barbarians, they were like um they were the people that not the snobs, but the people that didn't experience anything that they look down on them, they're like, what are they doing with these tattoos and these piercings and all of these things? And yet, if you think about it, over time what's happened? We now look just like that. And at one time they were considered barbarians and primitives, and and we're tattooing ourselves and we're piercing ourselves. You know, there was a time where not only were they pierced and tattooed, uh, they were basically naked. Many of the people that were considered primitives hundreds of years ago, while we were exploring and trying to figure out new places and how to do our trade routes and all that stuff, um, they were like scantily clad, they hardly had anything on, their breasts were just out there, and they were hardly showing hiding anything. Um, and yet you can go to the beaches in America today. And we look just like them.

SPEAKER_04 30:18

Beaches? You can go to the mall.

j - Jesus M. Ruiz 30:19

Well, maybe not that something go to California. You can go to California, they're right there on the streets, and they're just standing there butt-nak naked, you know, doing whatever. And and so the the reason why I bring that up is like it used to be looked down upon when you did all of that stuff. You were not, you know, proper or whatever. Um, and so we've taken on the customs of of other nations, other tribes, other peoples, and and it's it's things that were considered something that you look down upon. And yet today we're not considered barbarians for engaging those behaviors, we're not considered primitive or something like that. By looking at the history and Greeks and Romans, they tattooed their slaves and mercenaries. They they wanted to keep them from escaping and desertion. Criminals in Japan were tattooed. The Nazis tattooed the Jews to mark them. Um you can find all of this stuff on YouTube for for for if you're really interested in them. But another thing is, I was kind of looking into this topic a little bit more in depth, um, there's there's an idea called totemism. Totemism. And I think I think it was first introduced to me in our previous fellowship, our previous pastor. Um and it totem is the belief found in indigenous societies in which humans are thought to have some spiritual linkage to this totem, to this emblem. And sometimes it's in a piercing, sometimes it's in a in a tattoo, and and it's sometimes it's an animal or a plant. And they they feel attached to them spiritually, um, and not only them as individuals, but also their group, their whole group, their whole tribe will get this totem on themselves, whether it's a piercing or a tattoo. And it serves as an emblem for their whole tribe or a symbol. And these symbols can be images on poles, they can be images on carvings, or they can be tattoos on someone's body. And and these practices are taking really the Western world. I mean, everybody's doing that now. Whereas we would never do such a thing. We would never put all of these. I don't know, uh, way back when, uh, during my high school years, I remember watching, you know, National Geographic. A lady would put a necklace on, a a like a like a gold thing on her neck. And then, like after a period of time, she'd put another one. After another period of time, she put another one. Another one. And then she'd have this long neck with all of these, I don't know what they were, gold, iron things, to elongate her neck. Now we're not doing that, but I'm only using as an example that there are some things that maybe the primitives in the in the past would do to themselves that we would we would never think of doing such things, but now we're starting to do them. Um I you may have seen this, you can let me know if you've watched uh YouTube, but they're taking, you know, you talked about you know one earring or one nose ring. And we you you touched upon it a little bit, but then there was multiple ones, and then multiple ones. And I'm like, okay, so when is the cutoff point? Like, how far are we taking this? We have earrings that are not just in the earlobe, they're going right up around the edge of the ear all the way to the top, and then and sometimes they're here, sometimes they're on the tongue, and we talked about the lips and the tongue, and then they got chains going from the nose to the to the something else, and and then they got that ear, that the belly button nose rings, and I mean it's literally going, it's like we have to touch every part of the body with a rear earring of some kind or a piercing of some kind. And it's just it's like, where's the limit? Where's the limiting principle on this behavior? Because there has to be some limiting principle. I mean, too much of a good thing ends up being a bad thing. At some point in science, there's gotta be something that that says, okay, wait, this is a little too far. We're taking this a little too far. Um, you know, there there's a it when you look in psychology, there's this word called stigmatophilia. You may have heard it, you may have not, but it's the love for body piercings and tattooing, and it's company with a sexual arousal.

SPEAKER_06 34:48

Oh, mercy.

j - Jesus M. Ruiz 34:50

People are like getting off on that. And so now the piercings are on the nipples of women, the nipples of men, closer to the genital areas. It's like, okay, where's the limiting principle here? There's gotta be something that says you've taken this a little too far. Um, but if you look a little bit deeper, tribalism is where a lot of this comes from, where they sculpted their bodies, they tattooed themselves, and it's attached to superstition, it's attached to magic, it's attached to idolatry, it's attached to spirit and image worshiping. And so now I bring it back to the scriptures. There is one scripture, and yes, it was in the law. Um, but you know, I have taught many, many times before that there was never anything wrong with the law. The problem is man wasn't able to keep the law. The law is pure, the law is holy, the law's, you know, it's good. And it says in Leviticus 19, 28, you can look at whatever translation you want to use. I'll just read from the NKJV. You shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor tattoo any marks on you. I am the Lord. Now he told directly, that's explicit. He told his people, I never want you doing that. Now, where did they get that idea from? From the surrounding pagan nations around them that were doing it. And they were doing it because they were idol worshippers. They were doing it because they were worshiping other gods in their nations, in their tribes, in their histories. They had left God so distantly behind that they are now attaching all of these carvings, all of these body piercings, all of these tattoos to themselves, and in order to worship their gods. Um there's a, you know, it for those that are in the kingdom, for those that are that are that are Christians, um, there's a book called The New Manners and Customs of the Bible. And it basically says, cutting and tattooing were done by heathens. And so God forbade his people from doing so in imitation of them. Tattooing was sometimes accompanied by the shaving of the hair from the forehead. And there's several scriptures, and I'm just gonna read them, read them out to you, and you guys that are listening can look them up in Leviticus 19.28. Uh, you also had Leviticus 21.5, you had Deuteronomy 14.1, um, Jeremiah 1.6, and Jeremiah 48.37. And everybody can kind of search that on their own. Uh, because I I believe if anybody's heart really, really truly loves the Lord, God is going to speak to them. I don't have to tell you what's right, what's wrong. If there's something explicit, I will tell you. If there's something that eh, you need to pray. And I think we've all said that. We've all needed to pray, we've already needed to take these ideas to the Lord. So when my daughter asks me about um I'm getting an earring, my first is in why? What in the world? Why? Why do you all of a sudden want to get an earring? What's the whole point? Because I'm for me, and my wife will tell you, I think she'll admit this, I'm very au natural. You don't have to have the earrings for me, you don't have to have the makeup for me, you don't have to have the the dyed hair, you don't have to paint the nails, you don't have to have that for me. If you're doing that for me, you're you're doing it for all the wrong. I don't understand that because I believe that God made us in his image and he made us beautiful. We don't have to go out of our way to beautify ourselves. Because for women, men are not like this. You know, we don't like beautify ourselves and and and huh? Well, okay. Okay. Let's not go into that direction yet. Um, but stereotypically, historically speaking, women would get dressed, they want to look good, they want to look attractive. Men, we just want to have a good time. And if we if we look, you know, kind of scraggly doing it, we don't care. You know, we don't have to go get makeup and all that stuff. Um, but I always uh I how should I say this? I admired when your beauty expressed itself without the need of you trying to express it. So if you looked beautiful and and you weren't like decked out, that's true beauty. It when you see the beauty within the heart of an individual, that's long-lasting beauty because all of the outwardness, all of that's gonna fade away, all of that's gonna change. What does it say in the scriptures? Charm is deceitful, beauty is vain, but the woman who fears the Lord, she shall be praised. And so when I think of my God, what are we doing to ourselves, to our own bodies? I think of 1 Corinthians 6, 19 through 20. And again, it's not a black and white against tattoos, but it's I want to find the heartbeat of God, I want to find the underlying principle. So he says, Don't you know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God? You are not your own. And everyone that's doing these body piercings and all of these tattoos, I'm wondering, is that really because the Lord wants you to do that? Or is that what you want to do? And that's a question for you to answer. I'm not trying to answer it for you, I'm just putting it out there like if you're a child of God, please put this question out between you and the Lord. Why do you, why are you doing that thing that it is that you want to do? Because you're not your own. He said, You're bought with a price. Therefore, glorify your God in body and in spirit because they're gods. You're your body is not yours to do with as you please. When I got married, I you know, I always joke with my wife, well, you know, take care of my body, because that's my body right now, you know. So be careful with yourself. And then it kind of the same thing with my body, because she, whenever I get hurt playing soccer or something, she's like, you know, she's telling me that you gotta take better care of yourself, blah, blah, blah. And so I kind of try to apply that principle in our lives. I want her to take care of herself because that's my body, and I want to obviously take care of her, and the same thing uh for her. Now, it also says in 1 Corinthians 10 31, whether you eat, whether you drink, whatever you do, do it all to the glory of God. And so every time we want to talk about these things, I want you to make sure that whatever it is that you're doing, that you're doing to the glory of God. And so I want that to be our our compass. Our compass is telling us what direction to go. Here's north. I'm not telling you how to get there, but here's north. Go north. Now figure out how you're going to get there and get there in a way that's safe for you and for others. So I thought about we know the Ten Commandments, don't we? Do we does anybody here have a problem with the Ten Commandments? Are we saying that because it's part of the old covenant, it's part of the law, that we we're not really supposed to respect it? But the Ten Commandments, or one of the verses in the Ten Commandments, says, You shall not make for yourself a carved image. It's talking about wood, stone, okay? Any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, meaning the angels and all the creatures above, or that is in the earth beneath, or is that in the water and the earth? So we're not supposed to make ourselves any wooden carvings, any stone carvings, any images. God has a problem with that. You may not understand why, but God has a problem with that. So now you're telling me that it's okay for you to put those prohibited images that instead of it putting on stone and wood, to put it on your own body? I'm just putting the question out there to you. He had a problem with you putting it on wood and stone, but he's okay with you putting it on his body, which is purchased by him. It's his body, not yours. He's now okay with that. When he's already told the people in the past, his people in the past, I don't want you doing what they're doing. I don't want you putting markings on your body. Excuse me, I don't want you tattooing yourself. But now he's okay. See, the underlying principle is about these images. What do we do with the images? It's what the tribe tribes were doing with the images. They were identifying with them in a manner that was, it became their idol. I I saw so many, uh because I was thinking about what we were going to talk about today, and I was trying to not be obvious about looking at people's tattoos and just seeing what they put on them. And I'm not, you know, snakes, roses, thorns. I'm sure you've seen them on their muscle. They have the the it's oh, it looks like a crown of thorns. I don't know what it is. Or barbed wire. Maybe it's barbed wire, you know, and and I'm like, and I'm seeing and to be honest with you, because I I know that many people that are gonna listen to this podcast are brothers and sisters in the faith, and they have tattoos.

SPEAKER_03 43:49

I've even seen it in our church. They have scriptures on there.

j - Jesus M. Ruiz 43:53

They write the scriptures on there, and and I've seen it within the brethren. I've seen our brothers and sisters who love the Lord, who worship the Lord, you know, with us. And I've seen tattoos in their legs and their thighs and their feet and their arms and their hands and in whatever. I know of brethren, you know, they have tattoos in their back and and whatever. And I just once you have a tattoo, you really can't get rid of it. So I I'm not condemning of anyone that has them. We had a life prior to being born again, whether we were whether we were raised up in a preacher's church or whatever, we had to be born again, right? We all had to be born again. It doesn't matter where we came from. But you read a good scripture uh, you know, about you know, women in like manner they adorn themselves in modest apparel. So when I look at a woman that is calling herself a child of God, if I see her all tatted up all over her arm, up to her neck, and all through her face, because there's people that are tattooing their faces elaborately. What's the limiting principle here? How far is this going to go? And if you're supposed to dress in modest apparel, is that modest? Again, there's principles. There doesn't have to be uh God, you know, telling us specifically in black and white, because those that are led of the Spirit of God, those are the sons of God. So I'm asking you before you make these decisions, because some of these you can't you can't turn back the time and get rid of it and all this stuff. Are you really being led of the Lord in this manner? Maybe you need to sit tight, hold back so you don't regret doing something that you cannot go back and do, you know? Um, what were you gonna say?

SPEAKER_03 45:47

I was gonna say, I don't know if I put this down for another topic, but I think um a couple of months ago I was studying with judges, and there was an introduction to judges which caught my attention um because it was talking about how we have to trust the Lord. So that he told the people uh it he told Joshua to tell the people to kill all the pagans. Like and there were certain ones that it was only the men, and but there were other ones that he wanted them to wipe out everybody, and it's because he knew what they were doing. And one of the issues was he didn't want his people to do what they were doing, which is what they ended up doing when you situate yourself in judges. Once Joshua died, it's like here we go, and they went full force with it. So uh, you know, he talked about it in Exodus too that he wanted the pagan influence to be wiped out. Um, and I just I I think I highlighted um it showed that the first people that had victory trusted the Lord, but then Judah and Simeon um experienced defeat because they failed to make a total commitment to God when they progressed to Canaan. They only did part of what God said, they didn't do the whole thing, and therefore, um instead of wiping out, they lived alongside, and then forever they were a thorn in their side, but also they were intermarrying and they were doing everything that God had said not to do. So a lot of times God puts parameters, like you said, how far will you go? And we will, our flesh wants to do something and we'll say, God is leading me to do this, but it's really our flesh that's leading us and not God. So um, you know, we have to trust Him. And like my uh husband was saying, that in the Old Testament, the law, He God put the law there. We we walk in a different way because we have the Spirit, but it didn't eliminate the law. The principle is still there. We're not supposed to be part of the the heathen or the pagan around us because God pulled us out and he even says, come out from among them. So when you have the born-again experience, he's bringing us out, not to go back in and dabble and you know, dabble with things, but to stay out and um raise our families out. So that that was something that came up as you were talking because I remember that. It impacted me how there were so many characters and judges that just did exactly what the Lord said don't do, engaged, entertained, or thought of, and then they were entangled and it caused a big mess.

SPEAKER_00 48:30

Yeah. Um go ahead, now I think why this discussion is so important is because um, especially for young people, people who are they're just starting to follow the Lord. Um there's this feeling that when you're a believer, it's you're in a box. How much wiggle room do I have? You know, it's like oh what can I do without sinning, this, that, and the third. And the issue is that even in this conversation, you know, we talk about people's past, and you know, but it's going forward that you know, even if you made these decisions, that's why it's important to be led of the spirit and not yourself. You know, deceive yourself. The heart is deceitful, like so the things that you desire they're not natural to God, they're natural to your flesh. Right. Um and so as young people, it it's it's important that we're connected to the word and have a relationship with God, that he can speak to us through his word at Hill, reveal stuff by his spirit, so that we're not feeling like this, oh Lord, I don't have this freedom in you. As a believer, you have freedom. Paul says all things are lawful, but yet not everything is expedient, it's not it's not beneficial. And that the position as a believer, someone who is born again, one, it should be a heart that's devoted to God, you're you have love for yourself, but also for your neighbor. And a big principle in the New Testament is unity. And anything that caused disunity to cause any division within the church, it had to be dealt with. And so there's concepts that we have to uh take on as believers, as mature believers, that there are some things that'll be stumbling blocks to others. You could have even mature Christians who can't fellowship with believers who have tattoos or piercings because that's a stumbling block for them. And so then the believer who has tattoos and piercings will find themselves actually being the mature believer in them. And so it's this give and take, and as believers, you have to be willing. That's what the spirit wants to say. We have to be willing to make the accommodation for one another because that's what love does.

SPEAKER_05 50:56

Right.

j - Jesus M. Ruiz 50:59

You you I'm glad I'm glad you spoke up because I was gonna just talk about that. You had brought up, I think, Amber, you brought up about this idea of this judgment and not wanting to be able to judge others. So I brought up in my notes, I wanted to talk about because a lot of Christians will always bring up Romans 14. Romans 14, the whole chapter has two main points. The first part of it, or the first half of it, is not passing judgment on one another. We don't have the right to do that. Okay, but at the same time, the latter half of that same chapter, it starts talking about yet do not cause one another to stumble in their faith. So, as Christians, you you said it, you Paul said it, we have all of this freedom, but not everything that that I'm free to do is gonna be beneficial for me or for my brethren. So there's things that we've already done. There's nothing we can do to change that, okay? And so we're gonna accept them, we're gonna embrace them, and we're not gonna hold that back against them because our heart doesn't hold back our sins against us after we've already done it and we can't really change it, you know. But if we're a Christian now, we need to think about well, if I get this nose ring with the chain that goes all the way to my ear and get all of these tattoos, is this really gonna benefit my brother and sister, or is it gonna cause them to stumble in their faith? Let's think about that, let's consider that first because that's love. Love is I'm not gonna just make a decision because I want to satisfy my own desires, I'm gonna make a decision thinking about how is it gonna affect my brethren? Because there's a and I'm sure you guys have been in different churches or know of different churches where they have different standards, and and you're like, well, I don't hold to that standard, but if I come here and I'm gonna fellowship here, I'm gonna respect y'all. I'm gonna dress in a way that is not gonna cause you to stumble. Because the last thing I want to do is I want to come here. If we're really brothers and sisters, I want to be able to worship in the Lord in unity and spirit, you know, and in truth. And if I come to you dressed when I can dress in a way that doesn't offend you, then that's gonna bring about the unity. But if I come in a way not caring how you think about it, because I we can, you know, be prideful in our freedom and say, there's nothing wrong with this. They got the issue, and you come and start dressing in a way that's inappropriate in their eyes, then they can't worship the Lord. They're constantly thinking about, oh, what's that person think they're doing here, dressed like that and putting up all that makeup on their hair and wearing that thing in their hair? Oh, they're cutting their hair and their short hair or their long hair, or they're not dressed to their wrist, or or they're showing too much calf there, you know, and they go down the list because they can't get over you. You know, we have to be the mature ones and just do what the best that we can to not cause another person to stumble and be offended. So I remember Romans 14, but I also remember about okay, don't pass judgment on one another. I'm not gonna, you know, I'm not gonna believe you're gonna go to hell because you have a tattoo. I'm not gonna believe that you go to hell because you got an earring or a nose ring or a toe, you know, uh a tongue ring and all of this stuff.

SPEAKER_04 54:08

A toe ring.

j - Jesus M. Ruiz 54:09

No, I've seen people with toe rings, but that's beside the point. Um, not not piercings, but just toe rings. Uh but the latter part is don't cause another one to stumble in your face. So I'm gonna leave this section, but you're you're welcome to add anything else uh to this. So as you listen to this, I want you to ask yourself a few things. What is, or what is your motivation for getting a tattoo? For me, I think, not that I got a tattoo, but I remember I told you about the earring. I think it was peer pressure. I it's been 20 plus years since it since that type, so I may not remember exactly, but I think it was. Um was there a lustful desire for oneself to have something that was forbidden? Because some people actually want that because it's not allowed. I want to have what I'm not allowed to have. It's the same thing that happened in the garden. I want to eat that fruit. Why? It looks as good as every other fruit, but it's not allowed, so I want that one. You could have all the others, you could have an enormous amount of others. There's the freedom. We think that there's not freedom, but we had all the freedom to eat of any tree that we want. We just had what we couldn't eat. That's freedom. That's not a box, that's not a cage. That's maturity.

SPEAKER_05 55:31

Right.

j - Jesus M. Ruiz 55:31

That the maturity will get us to realize, oh my gosh, these are just parameters so that I He can keep me safe, he can keep me sound. That's all it is. But it's not a box, it's not a cage. Is this something that you wanted to do, or did the Lord want you to do it? Does tattooing or piercing one's body today give God the glory? I'm asking the question. I'm not telling what the answer is. I'm asking you to ask the question. Are people drawn to the Lord Jesus because they see all of these piercings? Because they see all of these tattooings? It are they drawn to the Lord or are they drawn to you? Ooh, wow, that's an interesting thing. You know, as I was looking at all the different tattoos, I'm like, man, there's a lot of different things. And then I'm gonna ask you to try to try to apply the scriptures. Has it ever been sanctioned by the Lord? Has it ever been spoken of in high regard by his people at any time in both the old or the new covenant? And then last question Does the body piercing and being tattooed make you look like the world? Or does it make you look like a child of God? Ask yourself that. Is that what it's doing? Because I can tell you that the surveys have been taken about people that do their piercing and their tattooing. You know what they're what either the number one or the the top two or three reasons is? You want to take a guess? What's the number one reason why they get piercings or tattoos?

SPEAKER_02 57:04

Honor the dead.

j - Jesus M. Ruiz 57:05

Sorry?

SPEAKER_02 57:06

Honor the dead.

j - Jesus M. Ruiz 57:06

Honor the dead? That's that tribalism aspect, yes. Looks cool. Looks cool?

SPEAKER_00 57:13

Everyone else is doing it.

j - Jesus M. Ruiz 57:14

Everyone else is doing it. Okay. So according to surveys, either the most important or one of the top two or three reasons, the important the most important reason why they got a body alteration, what was the motivation for the piercing of the tattoo? Individual expression. Individual expression. So it's not that they're wanting to express the Lord, they want to express who they think they are. And that's their motivation to do whatever it is that they're doing. So that's according to service. So that's piercing and tattooing. Hopefully that blesses somebody. If you appreciate listening to this podcast and were blessed, pass it along to someone else by text, email, or word of mouth in the hopes that they might be positively impacted as you were. If you are interested in supporting our efforts, we would ask you to consider the following. One, pray for us. Two, leave a positive rating of review with whomever you listen to our podcast with. And three, if you desire to contribute monetarily, you can do so at aw.me slash j thenjesus. Or cash app, dollar sign, J Ben Jesus, or Venmo, J Ben Jesus. That's J B E N J E S U S. God bless.